Topic - Mari / Modo Discussion

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Hello

Following on from a comment in this thread from Chris Provine

http://forums.luxology.com/topic.aspx?f=4&t=70887

I've started this thread so people can ask questions / discuss all things Mari / Modo.

I'm happy to answer any questions and take any feedback that people might have.

Jack

Message edited by Jack Greasley on 10/24/2012 - 5:50 AM

Thanks Jack!

You might notice your URL didn't go - the reason is (and it took me awhile to even see why) because you need to highlight links and click on the LINK button above. Makes it easier.

I always wondered why it didn't work here like most forums, but this is definitely something different. And thanks for the thread.
Quote from rcallicotte :
Thanks Jack!

You might notice your URL didn't go - the reason is (and it took me awhile to even see why) because you need to highlight links and click on the LINK button above. Makes it easier.

I always wondered why it didn't work here like most forums, but this is definitely something different. And thanks for the thread.


Thanks! I'll learn to use computers properly one day.

:)

Message edited by Jack Greasley on 10/24/2012 - 5:50 AM

I'm sure this may exist somewhere in some form, but a detailed tutorial and or marketing materiel about the benefits of using modo with mari would certainly get a lot of our attention. There are probably a lot of other modo uses who are wondering if and how it can make our texturing easier and better.

I've had mari on my radar for some time. For me it looks like a tool I need to learn and invest in and I keep telling myself I'm going to sit down with my digital tutors subscription and actually learn about mari and figure out how to incorporate it in my workflow. I know that it would be good for me to learn it and invest in it, but until I find the time I'll never learn it or invest in it.

If I'm shown via some dedicated modo-mari tutorial so I don't have to try to figure it all out myself (like the rigging master course) it will certainly get me hyped up and will motivate me to find the time to investigate mari. Which means I'm more likely to invest in it.
Quote from Jack Greasley :


Thanks! I'll learn to use computers properly one day.

:)




^LOL!

Thanks for the Mari thread, Jack.

-Will

Message edited by WillBellJr on 10/24/2012 - 6:43 AM

Well, I asked this on the modcast thread, but I´m copy pasting it here:


I´m curious, from people that use mari, and since I´m very interested in dropping photoshop, because I really hate to work without direct feedback.

I mostly do texture painting for archviz models, roads, building, changing textures from various sources.

What I want to know is, how fast can you work on it compared to photoshop, and can Mari's price justify the increased workflow, for a person that doesn't do lots of characters.

Personally, for me to get Mari working, means I need to get my windows machine working again, so it's not just about buying Mari...

Thanks!
Quote from Barros :
Well, I asked this on the modcast thread, but I´m copy pasting it here:


I´m curious, from people that use mari, and since I´m very interested in dropping photoshop, because I really hate to work without direct feedback.

I mostly do texture painting for archviz models, roads, building, changing textures from various sources.

What I want to know is, how fast can you work on it compared to photoshop, and can Mari's price justify the increased workflow, for a person that doesn't do lots of characters.

Personally, for me to get Mari working, means I need to get my windows machine working again, so it's not just about buying Mari...

Thanks!



Hi,

One of our larger customers did a 6 month, in depth analysis of Mari Vs Other texturing workflows. The test included numerous external tools and their own inhouse solution. They found that over that period (and hundreds of assets) their artists were 30% faster using Mari. That is painting props, characters, assets, interiors etc. They tested the same artists with the same assets in each workflow so it was a good comparison.

If you find yourself doing a large amount of texture work then Mari can justify itself pretty easily.

Scott Metzger's Mari interior lighting and rendering work might be of interest too. He has updated this recently and was getting insane detail on his interiors within a couple of days, using a single texture.

Part One.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d8ypguQjFw&playnext=1&list=PLEE4CD0B9B3BA546F&feature=results_video
Part Two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdEyQGzRSaQ&feature=relmfu
Part Three.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3nPBrESJeE&feature=relmfu

Message edited by Jack Greasley on 10/24/2012 - 7:20 AM

hey modo y u no ptex?
Quote from Jack Greasley :


Hi,

One of our larger customers did a 6 month, in depth analysis of Mari Vs Other texturing workflows. The test included numerous external tools and their own inhouse solution. They found that over that period (and hundreds of assets) their artists were 30% faster using Mari. That is painting props, characters, assets, interiors etc. They tested the same artists with the same assets in each workflow so it was a good comparison.

If you find yourself doing a large amount of texture work then Mari can justify itself pretty easily.

Scott Metzger's Mari interior lighting and rendering work might be of interest too. He has updated this recently and was getting insane detail on his interiors within a couple of days, using a single texture.

Part One.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d8ypguQjFw&playnext=1&list=PLEE4CD0B9B3BA546F&feature=results_video
Part Two.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdEyQGzRSaQ&feature=relmfu
Part Three.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3nPBrESJeE&feature=relmfu




I´ll dig into to these tonight. thanks a lot for the detailed reply. Looks promising.

I have to say this, I was the guy that Brad talked about a few modcasts ago, that was having a problem getting the Camera Tracker license working. I got an email from Brad, sugesting that I should get in touch with your tech support about it. I did, and even though I'm running on Mountain Lion, which is not supported by your software yet, still you had no problem with it, and wanted to help me out...

I worked with Nuke for a while (until almost 1 year ago), so I know how helpful you guys are, when I used to use it, we'd get a lot of help from the foruns with gizmos and tweaks, little scripts and tools.

So this merger for me is like a wake up call, or rather, It increased my will to get back at using your products. While getting back to Nuke may take a little while (because of its price of course), I bought the Camera Tracker already, and I have my eyes now on Mari.



Sorry for the off-topic, but I wanted to thank you guys.

Message edited by Barros on 10/24/2012 - 7:49 AM

Quote from pixteur :
I'm sure this may exist somewhere in some form, but a detailed tutorial and or marketing materiel about the benefits of using modo with mari would certainly get a lot of our attention. There are probably a lot of other modo uses who are wondering if and how it can make our texturing easier and better.

I've had mari on my radar for some time. For me it looks like a tool I need to learn and invest in and I keep telling myself I'm going to sit down with my digital tutors subscription and actually learn about mari and figure out how to incorporate it in my workflow. I know that it would be good for me to learn it and invest in it, but until I find the time I'll never learn it or invest in it.

If I'm shown via some dedicated modo-mari tutorial so I don't have to try to figure it all out myself (like the rigging master course) it will certainly get me hyped up and will motivate me to find the time to investigate mari. Which means I'm more likely to invest in it.


This is a great point. We are working on some ideas for showing a nice Modo / Mari workflow. We'll let you know as soon as we get something ready. :)
Hello all .

I dont know how much help I can give but. Im right in the middle of texturing my sherman tank using just Mari. All I can say I COULD not get the model done as fast as its going with just photshop.

Right now Im working on the main hull area with all the trimmings. Theres a total of 8 maps and all are getting painted as needed. And best thing its right on screen what and were your painting. If you know photoshop pretty good its very easy to jump in Mari thats the beauty of the program.

Also when you ready to export your textures there all numbered in my case all 8 and just plug it in Modo and tweak the material settings as you feel and render away.


I can see if I can post some screens later if needed when I get home.


Cheers

Mike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLyL1B981rk

This workflow might also be interesting to people to Arch-Viz stuff. Using Mari / solved FBX cameras to quickly texture a building facade.

Sorry for the lack of sound on this one.

Message edited by Jack Greasley on 10/24/2012 - 8:52 AM

Great to see the interest growing. I'll just jump in off the top of my head...I'll think of more as I get more acquainted with Mari.

I've been using Mari for almost 2 weeks now. Initial thoughts are that Mari is a useful tool for me. I am slowly getting used to the projection painting. I never gave Zbrush Projection painting enough of a chance.

Everything is really snappy and responsive for me. The viewport interaction has been great. I'm having a cursor issue where it often vanishes as I move from viewport to menu items, but appears again after clicking or moving back to the main viewport. Very annoying. Support has indicated knowledge of the issue.

First thought is that I feel limited without being able to paint in a 3d environment. Not being able to spin the model around and paint directly on a model feels very restrictive.

Mari has a really nice set of Projection Masking techniques that get better and better as I get more comfortable with them. The Edge Masking is a nice Incidence Gradient that is very easy to understand, especially if you know how a gradient works. Being able to combine the masks is really useful.

The Brush Engine is great. Lots of control and variety. Custom Brushes from Photoshop is smooth.

I really miss not having a Zbrush "Drag Dot" brush. Please code one soon!

Not being able to view images in the import dialog is surprising. They show up in the shelf....why not the import dialog ?

Some of the interface space is poorly used....lots of dead pixels cutting into the viewport area.

Now for the big problem I'm seeing. The example will be the Model from the CG Challenge. The Model has 50 UV patches. So, a minimum of 3 maps per UV patch, Diff,Spec and Bump..equals 150 individual images ( If I'm getting this wrong, please let me know). I started to port some of those images into modo just to see how they were looking. They looked pretty good. But...I'm having to do each one manually...gonna take forever and a day if I want to use modo for a beauty render. Even the tutorials over at Digital Tutors made the process look tedious and mind numbing.

I can see an opportunity for a "GoMari/GoModo" function.

Modo and Mari should eventually play nicely with each other.

For small scale work it wouldn't be to bad, but damn....try putting 150 images into modo for a render...if you have a smooth way to do it, please share. I'm a self trained CG artist and some things escape me, this could be one of them.

Again, just an initial response to Mari. I look forward to learning more.

Chris


Modo and Mari should eventually play nicely with each other.

For small scale work it wouldn't be to bad, but damn....try putting 150 images into modo for a render...if you have a smooth way to do it, please share. I'm a self trained CG artist and some things escape me, this could be one of them.

Again, just an initial response to Mari. I look forward to learning more.

Chris


I think this link might help with the importing.....

http://forums.luxology.com/topic.aspx?f=37&t=48572

Do you have a video of the Drag-Dot brush in action?

Oh and an interesting thing I just remembered. The first person to ever buy a copy of Mari, i.e. license number 00000001 is a Modo user and active member of these boards.

:)

Message edited by Jack Greasley on 10/24/2012 - 9:45 AM

Also found this one:

http://vimeo.com/22646845

Which showing Nuke to Mari, I guess it's the previous steps of the one you posted.

Also, I'm curious, how did you get such clean projections? Where they tracked inside of Nuke? It's just that it's so perfect from the get go with the 3D geometry that it got me wondering...
Quote from Barros :
Also found this one:

http://vimeo.com/22646845

Which showing Nuke to Mari, I guess it's the previous steps of the one you posted.

Also, I'm curious, how did you get such clean projections? Where they tracked inside of Nuke? It's just that it's so perfect from the get go with the 3D geometry that it got me wondering...


Yep, thats the full version using the Nuke<>Mari bridge.

The model was made in Modo and the cameras were solved from the reference images using Nuke.

Message edited by Jack Greasley on 10/24/2012 - 9:47 AM

ooh Nuke has camera solving too? i thought only nukeX did.
Really? The still shots were solved in Nuke?

By any change, is there a video about that workflow?


Please... :P

Message edited by Barros on 10/24/2012 - 9:54 AM

Hey Jack, thanks for the link!!!! Will pour over that tomorrow.

Correction on the brush name...it's the Drag-Rectangle "Stroke" type. Not a brush type. Sorry for the confusion.

The Drag Rect Stroke Type

Chris
Quote from Barros :
Really? The still shots were solved in Nuke?

By any change, is there a video about that workflow?


Please... :P


I'll see what I can find out. It might be NukeX only though. Sorry for the confusion.

HI Jack - obvious question: OS X version?
Quote from Darth Mole :
HI Jack - obvious question: OS X version?


Not at the moment sorry. This is something we're keeping a close eye on though. Those new iMacs look very interesting. :)

Ok I watched the first 2 videos...

Ptex is amazing, as soon as I find Brad's email, I´m going to hassle him everyday at 8 am begging for it :P


Second, Mari... go no words... Makes photoshop look like notepad painting, and me a foul for not being aware of it...


Anyone want to team up for that CGsociety competition to win almost all the Fuxnolodry software?




I've used the demo version of Mari. I like it, but that price, man. I understand you have to support major studios and all that, but I can't spend $2000 on something that Zbrush already gives me, even if it is a slower, less feature rich method.

If modo were to ditch its current painting engine and have a mini-Mari in its place, that would be great for freelancers. We just need something that paints fast. A full fledged Mari better for large studio pipelines.
Quote from Jason Miller :
I've used the demo version of Mari. I like it, but that price, man. I understand you have to support major studios and all that, but I can't spend $2000 on something that Zbrush already gives me, even if it is a slower, less feature rich method.

If modo were to ditch its current painting engine and have a mini-Mari in its place, that would be great for freelancers. We just need something that paints fast. A full fledged Mari better for large studio pipelines.


Thanks for the feedback!

We do have the upcoming promo (details to follow) that should make Mari much more accessible....

It should be pointed out that Mari can do much more than asset texture painting, and that camera based projection work or matte painting / set extension isn't really supported at all in zBrush or Mudbox (as far as I understand).

Message edited by Jack Greasley on 10/24/2012 - 10:59 AM

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