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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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Hello,
I am trying to load my LightWave WIP project into modo 201 for rendering comparison. When I load the object file it does just fine, but when I load the scene file, it does this (see image). I have tried loading other scene files with the same results (see insert in image). This exploding of layers with none of them in the right place is not an issue at all in LightWave where I am doing only still renders (single frame not exploding animations). I tried reviewing all the parenting and setting all the pivot points to 0,0,0 for each layer and resaving both the object file and the scene file inside LightWave, but no affect on how it loads into modo.
Any clues or suggestions?
Thanks,
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
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6/1/2006 - 10:36 AM
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290 posts
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Could it be a parenting issue ?
Say if Layer-1 is parented to Layer-2, and then Layer-2 is moved, Layer-1 would still think it has a local co-ordinate value of "0,0,0", even though it has moved in the global co-ordinate system.
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6/1/2006 - 10:40 AM
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290 posts
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BTW - Great model !!
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6/1/2006 - 10:41 AM
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29 posts
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Your on the right track with the parenting thing.. Modo seems to have some kind of issue with moving things when parented in an unpredictable manner..
I have had this happen to me when everything was zerod out in modo and i parented one thing under another. the best thing i could say is keep playing with the parenting. or if you dont have any sort of rig on the truck in lightwave. then i would say just break every piece appart and dont have any hierarchies when you load it into modo . and you can rebiuld it in modo if you feel the need..
Good luck
Seeya
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6/1/2006 - 10:44 AM
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UK
4040 posts
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Yes, I've had the same parenting issue with a couple of scenes that I've loaded in from lightwave.
I'm also having to re-set-up lots of image maps in the material editor on scenes imported from LW.
Modonize your workflow ...
http://www.modonize.com : The Modo community FAQ and knowledge base
Oh, and a handy place to find my scripts ...
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6/1/2006 - 10:51 AM
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Sunnyvale, CA
2205 posts
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Can't you unparent in place in LW? Maybe give that a shot.
Nice model - I have one of those (a real one I mean)
-Greg
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6/1/2006 - 10:53 AM
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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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I originally had no parenting at all in the F150 model (40 layers with all parents set to none). Strange that the earlier stuff I did (body) seems to all stay together but shifted up and back, and the later stuff (interior, wheels and rear bumper) all got shifted down and forward but together. The stage (not shown but done in the middle of the project) was the only piece that may have stayed in the correct position. After my problem loading into modo, I went through and parented the front bumper to the stage and everything else parented directly to the front bumper and set the pivot point for each layer to 0,0,0. No affect at all on the way it loaded into modo.
The caliper project (insert) was intended to be animated, so it has an important and more complex parenting arrangement as well as specific pivot points. In that model, every layer seemed to get transposed to a different location.
Neither project has any form of rigging or any complex surfaces.
I am a beginner at LightWave (started learning this past December), so I assume I am doing something wrong that I just happen to get away with fine inside LightWave 8.5. I am running both (LW and modo) on a Mac.
What is the proper file name extension for a scene file? (Mine currently have no extension- could that be a problem even though they load fine?)
Thanks,
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
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6/1/2006 - 11:02 AM
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Livonia, Michigan - USA
1603 posts
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Woah, mother, that's a beautiful model!
Did you model the entire truck in LightWave?
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6/1/2006 - 11:04 AM
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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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Thanks for the complements on my model! Yes it is all in LightWave so far (almost done- need to finish detailing the interior and then some general tweaking for accuracy here and there). I am posting this as a WIP on the NewTek forum:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46883&page=11
I have been working on this a little at a time since the end of February of this year. It is my first ever sub-d model and only my second project in LightWave (the caliper was my first- not counting a couple simple practice items- all straight polys). I did 3D product design / visualization using only solid spline modeling in Carrara for 3 years before starting learning LightWave this past December and modo 201 soon (as soon as I finish this truck and watch some of the modo training materials). I am having trouble getting started with modo- I keep running into problems, but I am sure the video training and manuals will help me get it right- starting with the basics and stop hitting LightWave shortcut keys that do something different in modo.
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
Message edited by Jeff Rutan on 6/1/2006 - 12:42 PM
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6/1/2006 - 11:23 AM
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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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Well, I could not find the combination that would allow me to load my scene files from LightWave into modo without exploding the layers, so I decided to just start from the object file (it loads fine) and generate new light and render setting inside modo 201. I have a lot of surface settings yet to tweak, but here is my result so far.
I like the way it is starting to look, but I still have some problems due to my ignorance of lighting and rendering terminology in general. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
In LightWave, there is an option called Shading Noise Reduction in the Global Illumination settings that makes a huge difference in cleaning up an image (much cleaner results than what I am seeing in most modo renders in the WIP gallery). In modo I am getting lots of grainy noise (not as bad but still a serious problem for me in this image). I got rid of a lot of the noise by upping Irradiance Rays to 256, but that more than doubled the rendering time so it now takes longer than the native render in LightWave without as clean results. However, modo seems to do a much better job at AA and some other fine details. I also tried raising Interpolation Values from 1 to 2, but that didn't seem to make much difference. What are the key parameters to tune to reduce noise?
My problem is that it takes way to log to see the effect of these changes when I am just guessing, so I am not really learning much. I hope there are some training materials that will help me learn all this (I already ordered Dan Ablan's book and DVD course).
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
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6/2/2006 - 11:00 PM
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Vancouver
1862 posts
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if you are using an area light try doubling it's samples, most of your noise might be coming from it.
As far as IC goes, try:
IC rays 128
IC rate 5
IC interp value 6
see how that goes. For AA use 8 samples, with .2 fine rate and 8% threshold.
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6/2/2006 - 11:06 PM
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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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I have no lights at all in this, just Indirect Illumination with Environment Material all pure white and Intensity at 1.2 W/srm2, Use Environment As Light, Sampling Quality 8, Mapping Resolution 256.
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
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6/2/2006 - 11:18 PM
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Vancouver
1862 posts
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turn off use environment as light, thats your problem. It's not meant to be used with GI, just increase the intensity of the environment.
Message edited by Michael Blackbourn on 6/2/2006 - 11:24 PM
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6/2/2006 - 11:24 PM
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Vancouver
1862 posts
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Oh, and use my GI and AA settings while you're turning that off, you'll find that with all those changes your rendertime will be cut significantly.
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6/2/2006 - 11:35 PM
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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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Thanks Michael!
I set up using all your suggestions and started it rendering. Certainly the preview pane updated much faster! We shall see if the noise goes away. I really don't understand what your settings mean, but hopefully I can figure that out later with the training materials.
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
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6/2/2006 - 11:47 PM
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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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OK!
Still a lot of tweaking to do, but MUCH better in much less than half the render time!
It needs just a little more intensity and of course lots of surfacing, but this is on the right track for where I want to go.
Thanks so much Michael!
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
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6/3/2006 - 12:21 AM
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Vancouver
1862 posts
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Nice! to get the tires to stick a little closer try going up to 256 ICrays and lowering the ICrate to 3.5
Rendertime will go up, but probably not too badly.
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6/3/2006 - 12:33 AM
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London, UK
7321 posts
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Or render out an ambient occlusion pass, and multiply it with the original. That's what I usually do.
Fantastic model, by the way!
Message edited by Captain Obvious on 6/3/2006 - 4:33 AM
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6/3/2006 - 4:33 AM
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1883 posts
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Excellent work! Looking forward to the updates.
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6/3/2006 - 5:22 AM
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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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Thanks guys, I started another render, but how do I best up the AA slightly?
Michael, I don't know what you mean by "get the tires to stick"?
I did have the tires embedded into the stage just a bit. I moved the stage down just a bit more. I was trying to fake a little flattening on the bottom to show weight on the tires. Also, I think I got better (bigger) shadows on the previous render?
Captain, how do I do what you suggest (sounds really complicated)?
I am feeling a bit guilty about using modo on this project since it was supposed to be all LightWave, but you guys are really helpful! My next project will be all modo, so I am sure I will get a lot out of your feedback. I much prefer helpful hints to just praise (although praise is encouraging too). ;-)
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
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6/3/2006 - 6:50 AM
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Belgium
453 posts
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Really nice model Jeff, you'll see that setup shading for metallic parts and car paint is quite easy in Modo.
Jacques.
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6/3/2006 - 7:13 AM
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Athens , Greece
185 posts
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Quote from Michael Blackbourn :
if you are using an area light try doubling it's samples, most of your noise might be coming from it.
As far as IC goes, try:
IC rays 128
IC rate 5
IC interp value 6
see how that goes. For AA use 8 samples, with .2 fine rate and 8% threshold.
i would just like to add that this info as great! almost got 50% off my render time .I wish we could stick things like this to future members :)
Jesus Saves,I don't
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6/3/2006 - 7:15 AM
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Livonia, Michigan - USA
1603 posts
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Looking really nice.
Remember the sheetmetal is the hero of any auto product shot.
You must now create a 'scene' to reflect into the metal, much like professional photographers do here in Detroit. Set up black, white and maybe a cool colored series of bounce cards to reflect into the sheetmetal.
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6/3/2006 - 7:38 AM
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San Diego, CA USA
2150 posts
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Jacques, Wow! A complement from the master! I love your Ben Kingsley masterpiece in the making! It keeps getting more and more realistic!
Cszetela, Yes, I plan to do an HDRI using some of my wife's photography to get some great reflections in the chrome and paint. Right now the backdrop is all white.
Another question:
I am trying to make the license plates and Ford logos and maybe a few other details using image maps. I added an image map item to the shader tree for the shaders for these items. I got the images centered and scaled so they show on the geometry like I want it, but as soon as I deselect the image map shader item, the image disappears from the geometry and will not render. I assume there is some compositing to do to make these stick and also to get reflection, intensity and specularity properties. I have experimented with several guesses, but so far can't get anything to work.
Can someone tell me how to do this?
Thanks,
-Jeff
san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com
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6/3/2006 - 8:05 PM
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Livonia, Michigan - USA
1603 posts
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Jeff, I wasn't referring to HDRI, I was refering to actually setting up a virtual photographer's set. Check out this real photographer's set up. This can be done in modo.
The best way to map the Ford oval is using UVs in modo. Check out some of the UV tutorial videos.
Message edited by cszetela on 6/4/2006 - 9:23 AM
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6/3/2006 - 8:30 PM
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