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Redwood City, CA
44 posts
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Thanks Brad
BTW -- Was this the keyboard that you mentioned.
http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus/
Cool but $$
Message edited by Rob James on 11/16/2007 - 3:36 PM
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11/16/2007 - 3:01 PM
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San Mateo
1978 posts
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The first upload had a bad audio track. I have replaced with a better version. Apologies to anyone who's download is interrupted. All should be back to normal now.
BP
Message edited by BradPeebler on 11/16/2007 - 3:17 PM
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11/16/2007 - 3:02 PM
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Charlotte, NC
1698 posts
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47th (I've been drinkng)
Kurt
When you're through learning, you're through.
http://www.curtthurston.com
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11/16/2007 - 3:16 PM
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Phila, PA
199 posts
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Afrokelt Sound System? Sounds like some music I heard once on "The Mind's Eye", or was that "The Gate". Good stuff though.
Sounds like you had a good time in Tokyo.
I got a good laugh out of your description of how you played Ro-Sham-Bo with your audience members. You're very lucky no one took a snapshot of you in that position.
Looking forward to the videos and pics.
I like your reasons for the way your are presenting the eval.
If anyone is serious about considering MODO, $25.00 should not be a problem to shell out.
Touch screen keyboards? The wave of the future.
The contest sound like fun. Hope I'll have time to work on something.
Take Care
Scooter
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11/16/2007 - 3:43 PM
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Hertfordshire, UK.
335 posts
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First of all, many thanks for the modcast and explanation about the eval, Brad....but I'm sorry, you have just totally missed the issues that upgrade customers have.
I have supported Modo since 102 and very aggrieved that after my support, you see fit to cast me into the "stealers" catagory (or make me walk the process to weed them out). $25 is expensive for training material I don't need to just evaluate a software I already know. I need an eval to see if you guys are producing a software that does what it says on the tin with the new features, not to train myself on it.
I have proved my dedication to the Modo cause, but your policy and explanation has just lost you $395 of my hard earnt cash (16 eval training courses btw). I hope it proves cost effective for you.
$25 isn't expensive, but getting the right software is important to me, which is why I was willing to give you $100 more if you produced what you promised, by not pre ordering and waiting for the eval.
I wish you the best for the future!
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A life?! Cool! Where can I download one of those?
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11/16/2007 - 3:56 PM
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San Mateo
1978 posts
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You make a point Cheers. But I must also ask you, have we not earned some of that support? Have we not provided you with free updates which include a significant amount of new features and performance? Have we not provided you free access to weekly modcasts? Have we not created an entire system for giving you FREE video material (Luxology.TV) in an archived and easily searchable system?
While I agree in a perfect world we would be able to make a separate path for people who have owned previous versions ("In the family" I would say) but any action a company makes costs money and resources which take money and resources away from other endeavors. In the future, as I have indicated, there may well be a free eval available. But if you do 3D professionally, and 301 might improve your workflow or enable you to do something you otherwise could not, is it not worth a $25 investment to ensure that it will fit into your workflow? Isn't the time that the training will save you in ramping up on 301 (even if that ramp up was simply to decide not to buy it) worth $25?
I have to imagine you make at least $25 an hour. Especially considering the position of the USD versus the Pound. I am certain this material would save you more than than a single hour in your quest to evaluate modo and therefore it is not too much to pay for training on software you may not use.
But that's just my opinion. ;)
BP
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11/16/2007 - 4:18 PM
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Chicago
491 posts
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Quote from Cheers :
First of all, many thanks for the modcast and explanation about the eval, Brad....but I'm sorry, you have just totally missed the issues that upgrade customers have.
I have supported Modo since 102 and very aggrieved that after my support, you see fit to cast me into the "stealers" catagory (or make me walk the process to weed them out). $25 is expensive for training material I don't need to just evaluate a software I already know. I need an eval to see if you guys are producing a software that does what it says on the tin with the new features, not to train myself on it.
I have proved my dedication to the Modo cause, but your policy and explanation has just lost you $395 of my hard earnt cash (16 eval training courses btw). I hope it proves cost effective for you.
$25 isn't expensive, but getting the right software is important to me, which is why I was willing to give you $100 more if you produced what you promised, by not pre ordering and waiting for the eval.
I wish you the best for the future!
Hmmm... certainly a valid point. Perhaps a free eval accessable to folks who are users of previous versions of modo might help.
Ucghh!... looks like Brad put an end to that train of thought.
Message edited by silba on 11/16/2007 - 4:31 PM
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11/16/2007 - 4:27 PM
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San Mateo
1978 posts
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Speaking of free, I've just added two new FREE videos to Luxology.TV. ;)
BP
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11/16/2007 - 4:29 PM
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Taichung, Taiwan
565 posts
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I am Happy.
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11/16/2007 - 4:43 PM
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307 posts
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If I remember the 202 upgrade was a much needed patch for the disappointment of the 201 release. That release wasn't free that was a necessity for a bad 201 release. The modcast wasn't free it was implemented because of the failure to meet the January release date quoted at the August Siggraph. I might add that Lux failed to release networking in 2006 with modo 201 which you claimed would be there during the August Siggraph. These things you call free are here because Luxology dropped the ball along the way and people forgave because of these pickmeups that lux implemented.
You don't want to have a free 30-day eval, fine, six months from now Lux will have a free 30-day eval because your going to find out that Lux will need to have.
That all I'm going to say on this subject because if you don't release a free 30-day eval, Lux is not getting any of may money until I see modo in action on my computer, or on a computer in the area where I live. This isn't the stock market, I don't buy on spec.
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11/16/2007 - 4:51 PM
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Hertfordshire, UK.
335 posts
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Thanks for the reply Brad.
You have indeed given a great amount of resources to the community and I'm sure nobody would disagree when I say it is greatly appreciated by all users...but, I didn't realise that was offered as a condition of sale.
And there was me thinking that my purchase of Modo and odd purchase of training material would be all the monetary support you needed.
You are correct - $25 isn't that much, but once again, it is for something I may not need...and if Modo eval didn't live up to expectations then it (the training material) would be worthless.
For that $25 are you going to give me a relatively bug free 301? Will it run ok with my hardware? What you are saying in essence is - "well, give me $25 and I will tell you!"
Now don't get me wrong...I can understand exactly your reasons for this policy and sympathise, but as you have mentioned yourself in the past, this is a competitive market.
And please, don't compare the weakness of the dollar to the pound...I have to live with a mortgage that is 8x my annual salary (about average here in the UK) - all is not rosy the other side of the pond...as the famous saying goes "Always consider what may be fertilizing the greener grass the other side of the fence" ;0)
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A life?! Cool! Where can I download one of those?
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Message edited by Cheers on 11/16/2007 - 5:01 PM
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11/16/2007 - 4:58 PM
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San Mateo
1978 posts
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Let me correct you on a couple points.
Of course there are going to be bug fixes and updates. All software and Operating Systems ship patches here and there. Usually these patches or service updates do not include free new features. We DO offer something different and of increased value in that area over most other companies. This is indisputable. As a matter of fact, public companies can not give away new features. The only way they can provide features in between paid upgrades is via maintenance contracts (so you're still paying for it). This is one of those crazy side effects of sarbanes oxley. Sometimes it pays to be privately held.
modcasts are NOT a direct result of our delayed release of modo 201. When we knew 201 was going to be late we admitted it openly to the community and pledged an update each friday. At the time these updates were text only and usually quite short. Often the included an image or two and sometimes a quick video showing off something in 201.
Once 201 was released we could have easily dropped the Friday updates. Not only did we continue with the updates we upgraded them into podcasts and started performing interviews etc. Podcasts do not make themselves. There is a certain amount of production etc that goes into the making of a podcast. The community enjoys them so we make them.
I notice you did not address Luxology.TV. Clearly it is a wonderful and free asset for the community.
I've already indicated that most likely there will be a free eval at some point in the future so you don't need to feign being Nostradomus with the 6 month prediction. ;) Since you are on the mail list I am sure when we open the eval you will be notified directly.
I still don't understand why people seem "angry" about this. It really boggles my mind. There are so many things in this world to be out raged over. Not getting free access to some software certainly doesn't seem a good target in my mind.
BP
Message edited by BradPeebler on 11/16/2007 - 5:06 PM
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11/16/2007 - 5:05 PM
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San Mateo
1978 posts
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Cheers,
Check the home prices in the California Bay Area. ;)
My key point to you is that the $25 will cut the time it takes you to decide if 301 is right for you. Are people really going to spend 30 days? Probably not. Most people will open it up and poke around a bit. Search forums to learn how to do something, hunt through documentation to see if they can figure out how to use it for a specific job etc. If paying $25 cuts the time to eval by even an hour it is well worth it. I imagine it will do more than that.
Anyway, I suppose the point is moot. If you feel a free version is the only way to eval software, I'm sorry you will have to wait. We have decided to offer evals in this bundle only initially. As stated before this is to ramp up the eval program. We will also have to build different installers, etc, in order to deploy a free eval since we will have to reduce its size as we have done in the past.
Of course, I'd rather have my team focused on finishing and testing modo 302. ;)
BP
Message edited by BradPeebler on 11/16/2007 - 5:11 PM
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11/16/2007 - 5:11 PM
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Charlotte, NC
1698 posts
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Lets face it folks. It really just comes down to the $25 then doesn't it? I can piss away $25 in about five minutes at Block Buster Video. In fact I just did. I bought my daughter Shrek the Third and the little stuffed baby Shrek. I also pissed away $25 earlier today on the EvalTrainingVideo. Of course I already own 301 so I don't really need the eval copy but the videos have proven to be useful, . . to me anyway.
In fairness to those who already own previous versions of modo and would not consider upgrading without a evaluation of the latest release, I've never given that notion much thought. I did my evaluating on 102.
Curt
When you're through learning, you're through.
http://www.curtthurston.com
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11/16/2007 - 5:24 PM
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2958 posts
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Meh, Its an ok keyboard, I had their three keys thing, but its nothing like as useful as 3d Connexion.
Cmon Brad
RSI is a significant issue in this industry. Lux should be leading, not lagging behind.
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11/16/2007 - 5:35 PM
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Hawaii
218 posts
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Cool pictures.
But in the future you ought to plan for a couple extra days to rest up so you don't look so haggard.
Quote from BradPeebler :
Of course, I'd rather have my team focused on finishing and testing modo 302. ;)
BP
For those of us who are Modo owners -- shouldn't that be "OUR" team? ;) ;)
Modo makes modeling fun.
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11/16/2007 - 5:43 PM
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Atlanta, GA USA
1699 posts
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Quote from BradPeebler :
Cheers,
Of course, I'd rather have my team focused on finishing and testing modo 302. ;)
BP
Amen to that brother! Please fix the sculpting on the mac and right angle/straight line snapping.
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11/16/2007 - 5:46 PM
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20 posts
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I like the keyboard theory, I was thinking about this alot when the iphone first came out,
there was alot of noise from smartphone manufacturers saying that the keyboard would be a flop
because there was no tactile feedback but I can type way faster on my iphone than on my blackberry. I think the whole QWERTY keyboard idea is dated. I think we will see more touch screen devices as time goes on, a context sensitive key board would take the user experience into a totally new realm
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11/16/2007 - 5:51 PM
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Virginia, USA
2042 posts
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You know, this gets a bit tiring. If we pay attention we will see that this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened and the same ol' arguments are brought up time and time again by Luxology. Now, I guess I need to clear up what I mean by "this is not the first time". I will start by saying the circumstances were different each time, but the responses seemed to be the same.
Example: Luxology does something that a number of people are not happy with. As a result, these people complain and others step in to counter. Once things get a bit heated Luxology steps in and then we hear the story about all the "free stuff" that they area always giving us ... as if to say, "You have NO reason to complain about anything at all! After all, look at all the toys that Papa has given you!"
Continued below:
Message edited by Dan_Silverman on 11/16/2007 - 6:15 PM
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11/16/2007 - 6:14 PM
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Virginia, USA
2042 posts
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Continued from above:
Luxology released an update to the previous version and it included new tools for UV mapping (yay!). Some people complained about a few things with the update and ... WHAM ... Brad steps in and lets us know about all the FREE stuff included in the update as if to say, "You have no right to complain! Look at all the FREEEEEEE stuff we included in the update!". Huh? We didn't ask for the free stuff. It was really nice of Luxology and it was certainly needy and nifty stuff, but don't give something for free and then hang it over people's heads as a way to keep them from offering legitimate complaints.
And here we are again. Luxology releases the Training Album and currently it is the only way to get a demo/eval of 301. As a result, there are people who do not like this marketing scheme and have voiced their opinions about it. Once things start getting hot we hear what Brad said above (about free stuff)...
Continued below:
Message edited by Dan_Silverman on 11/16/2007 - 6:17 PM
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11/16/2007 - 6:14 PM
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Virginia, USA
2042 posts
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Continued from above:
free stuff ("Of course there are going to be bug fixes and updates. All software and Operating Systems ship patches here and there. Usually these patches or service updates do not include free new features. We DO offer something different and of increased value in that area over most other companies.") ...
free stuff ("Luxology.TV. Clearly it is a wonderful and free asset for the community") ...
Let's call this the "Luxology FREE Montra".
I can see the board meeting now:
Person 1: Uh-Oh. They don't like something we did.
Person 2: What do we do?
Person 3: Remind them of all the FREEEEE things we give to them out of the kindness of our weeeee lil' hearts ... and then DARE them to speak up against us!
Person 1: Great idea!
Let's set the record straight (as far as I am concerned): NONE of the things given away here are FREE. They ALL come with a price. The price is not always money. In many cases, it is loyalty. In other cases it is simply advertising and promotion of Luxology's products. None of this is wrong to do, mind you. But the attitude of bashing us over the head because Luxology decided to offer something with no financial strings attached ... well, that bothers me.
Luxology.TV is a great way to advertise and promote modo. It is not a free thing. It is inexpensive advertising. It is a smart marketing decision.
Added new features to updates are not free. They are a smart way to build loyalty to existing customers thus guaranteeing paid-for upgrades in the future. Once again, this is smart promotion and advertising, but it is hardly free.
Modcasts, forum updates, etc ... again ... not free. Again ... smart promotional material for your product and inexpensive advertising.
None of these are truly free. They all come with a price ... just not the money kind of price.
Now, let's turn this back to the topic at hand: The $25 Training Album bundled with the 30-day eval.
Some people are upset with it for a variety of reasons (some good and some bad). The answer is NOT, "But we give you so much FREEEEEEE stuff! Who else does that?" This sort of thing should never have been brought up at all.
It's certainly nice to get gifts. But it is not gifts that earn my trust. I especially do not like gifts that come with a condition. In this case, it seems the condition is to not complain or be reminded of the free things that were given. Something given with a condition is not really a gift now, is it?
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11/16/2007 - 6:15 PM
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895 posts
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What sold me on Modo were the free videos rather than the demo. If this $25 deal were around when I was deciding whether to buy, then I probably would have gone for it after having seen Modo's features as demonstrated in the free videos. Regarding stability and performance, I had read around various forums to get a pretty good sense of what I should expect, so I didn't really need the demo.
I don't do 3D professionally though so maybe a free demo is more important to pros for various reasons (e.g., in-depth benchmarking). And if you really do need a demo in order to determine whether you want to buy then I can understand the hesitation to pay the $25, because it's basically a gamble. If bandwidth is the main issue for Luxology then maybe you guys could imitate some Linux distros by bundling up a 301 demo with a bunch of Luxology.TV videos onto a DVD and then charge $5 for shipping.
As for touchpad keyboards, I have to agree with Maddox: I need tactile feedback. My fingers need to feel that they are actually interfacing with something rather than just moving around on a screen or a desk.
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11/16/2007 - 6:33 PM
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Cary North Carolina
1003 posts
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Luxology,
I'd be happy to pay $10 / mo. or something similar for access to premium Lux.tv content (especially if it meant a more regular delivery of same.)
I'm sure I'm not alone in this.
http://www.coalmarch.com New. Media. Solutions. (Raleigh NC)
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11/16/2007 - 6:39 PM
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darkside
320 posts
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Quote from BradPeebler :
I have to imagine you make at least $25 an hour.
i have to imagine also...
ps: thanks for your efforts brad & lux.
Message edited by Doutor Piranha on 11/16/2007 - 7:51 PM
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11/16/2007 - 7:50 PM
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