Topic - Ford Trimotor

The most important part of any journey is taking the first step.
Congratulation for being the first in our group (besides myself) to start!
Hopefully this will help inspire the others on the project to get going.
Remember the first 6 members to start and also complete their projects by July 16, 2007 will receive a FREE group shirt!
You are on your way – now lets see the start of a fuselage! 8-)
-Jeff

san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com

Okay. Here we go. My fuselage so far. 1 step forward. 2 back.

5/22/2007 - 11:16 PM

Looks more like 4 steps forward, 2 steps back because you ended up with front and side shaping of your fuselage!
Now lets see that top shaping and finish the shaping around the front side view! ;-)
It looks like you are already using linear falloff, but if not, try that for tapering your tail in the top view (Shape Preset: Ease-Out).
Go! Go! Go!
-Jeff

san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com

Message edited by Jeff Rutan on 5/23/2007 - 7:58 AM

5/23/2007 - 7:50 AM

You're right. I'm using a lot of falloffs on this so far. I'm hitting walls and just kind of knocking my head through them. I'd like to find a quick reference card for the keyboard shortcuts. I also need to watch more tutorials. The online manual is a little lacking in illustrating the effects of all the tools but that's where the tutorials help out a lot.

As you can see the front posed some problems for me. Trying to get from square to round. I finally ended up marrying a disc to the existing polys on the nose and ended up with the funky rosette on the front. I figure I can delete that poly because the front engine will cover that area up.

I guess I learn by doing. It's good to have a project to push the limits of my small knowledge.

-Gardner

ztmodo

Saint Cloud
210 posts

So I'm looking at the cross sections of my elevations and the nose is actually a little more square than round. DOH. I still like the front better since I went to one poly.
I spent today trying to finish the fuselage. It's funny but the aircraft is so boxy I might have gotten away without sub ds 'cept for the nose. Anyway, I like the way it's going. I went down a few blind alleys but in general I think I'm about ready to start other parts. A look at the reference photos shows the rest of the plane basically stuck on to this body. The wings, engines, verticle and horizontal stabilizers...all will be "glued" on. I'm going for consistent finish here so tomorrow I think I'll do the wings.
-Gardner

5/24/2007 - 8:03 PM

Gardner, Looking great so far!

The nose looks like it might be slightly too long, but that may be an optical illusion.
Sometimes the 2D reference drawings are not completely accurate, but your blueprints appear to be much better than most. Sometimes you need to trust your artist instincts from looking at your reference photos and the real thing as the project progresses. The reference blueprints can only get you so far.

The engines will be a real challenge. Check this thread for some inspiration and advice:
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=17104&page=0
The finely detailed engine Phil is building (Pratt & Whitney R-2800) for his Corsair is basically the same as yours (R-985) and also the engines in my Catalina (R-1830). Yours are single Wasp instead of a Twin Wasp, but yours have 9 cylinders around (his has 18 with the second row). Mine is a Twin Wasp, but only 7 cylinders each row (total of 14). Yours are actually more critical than either of ours because more of the engines are showing in your Trimotor, especially the middle engine. Maybe we can work out a deal to share? ;-)

-Jeff

san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com

Hi Jeff,
I think the proportions are okay but thanks for the tip. I looked around and found the perspective display setting in the preferences so I changed it a little. That will be evident in the next pix I upload. I have a lot of good reference photos and they're a real help at looking at the 3/4 views.

Thanks for the link to the radial engine. The nice thing is that after I build the one I get to use it twice more. Actually I only really have to build one cylinder, right? ;) These engines are tough because they were constantly being developed and improved through this period. The difference between the Sopwith Pup engine and an engine in a Hawker Typhoon is staggering. I'll be curious to see how much on the engine should be sub-d. Or is the goal to make everything in modo sub-d?

I'm still searching to a keyboard shortcut list and certain things have me perplexed. Maybe more tutorial watching is in order. Example: This has always been a question all the way back to LW. Does positive z space extend into the back or the front? When I set up my template view the plan for the right projection is the right side of the plane, left is left side of plane, top, bottom, but the front and back are flipped. I look at the back view to work on the front of the plane. I still don't get it. Maybe I never will. I just want to do things "right."
-Gardner

Hey Jeff, I didn't answer your question. I'd be happy to share any assets on the engine. I'm lucky cause I get to put a big ol' cover right on the front of mine. Rest assured I will skip any detail that can't be seen. ;)

Thanks for I.D.ing the engine #. You're right basically these things are the same--it's just amazing how many do-dads they added on and how many rows of pistons too.

-Gardner

Here's the latest. I'm happy to stop with the fuselage for a bit. The wings went much faster. Now to add some more details. First, back to paying work for a bit. I'm happy to have a fuselage by Tuesday's deadline.

-Gardner

Hi
Looking good so far.
Putting yourself under a deadline with your first aircraft is understandable under the circumstances but...
I find I keep ditching chunks and starting them over as I get better at it. Not conducive to finishing though.
The closest to a keylist is found in the keyboard editor (F2). So many functions without keys assigned and a layout designed to be constantly edited including key-presses, I guess is why none exists. You can transcribe your own from the editor though.
Hope it's a help.
Good luck with the 16th.

6/1/2007 - 4:54 PM

Thanks for the input. I'm still slogging through tutorials and just purchased the product. I plan to get more done really soon. Thanks for the F2 tip Singularity, I've got a bunch of tips from Jeff today too. He looked at my file and made some great suggestions. There's so many little features that I know exist, I just don't know where they are yet.

-Gardner

ztmodo

Saint Cloud
210 posts

6/1/2007 - 8:58 PM

I think your confusion results from Modo's inconsistent view naming convention. I whined about it in this thread:
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=9227

grantm

South Africa
1507 posts

Quote from Gardner :
Hi Jeff,
...and certain things have me perplexed. Maybe more tutorial watching is in order. Example: This has always been a question all the way back to LW. Does positive z space extend into the back or the front? When I set up my template view the plan for the right projection is the right side of the plane, left is left side of plane, top, bottom, but the front and back are flipped. I look at the back view to work on the front of the plane. I still don't get it. Maybe I never will. I just want to do things "right."
-Gardner

6/2/2007 - 12:14 AM

Gardner and I have been having extensive face to face and email discussions and LightWave vs. modo experiments on this topic and it seems you can't win with modo - either left/right are backwards or front/back are backwards depending on if you use Z positive forward or Z negative forward respectively.

Hopefully modo 301 will allow you to configure the view labels to your liking in addition to swapping the Y and Z labels.

-Jeff

san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com

6/2/2007 - 1:04 AM

Santa Monica, CA. USA
1419 posts

3dtodd

Quote from Jeff Rutan :
Gardner and I have been having extensive face to face and email discussions and LightWave vs. modo experiments on this topic and it seems you can't win with modo - either left/right are backwards or front/back are backwards depending on if you use Z positive forward or Z negative forward respectively.

Hopefully modo 301 will allow you to configure the view labels to your liking in addition to swapping the Y and Z labels.

-Jeff

It's good to know I'm not the only one experiencing this weirdness in modo. When I've placed images in the viewport as reference for modeling modo seems to misinterpret things. I place an image I know is looking at the right side of the face and modo flips the image. So if I continue to model this way, the model grows in -Z space as opposed to +Z, as it should. I hope this is fixed in 301.

6/2/2007 - 8:27 PM

I just got and email from Brad on this issue and of course there is a big reason why they did this in modo - for compatibility with Maya, Mental Ray, Soft Image, Houdini, etc. However, he says it is too big a change to make it configurable in 301. So I guess we just have to keep registering our dissatisfaction and maybe they will address it in 302 or some other future version.
-Jeff

san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com

6/2/2007 - 9:53 PM

So does that mean Maya, Mental Ray, Soft Image, Houdini, etc users are not confused by the fact that you can see the front of your car in the 'front' view but you can't see the left side in the 'left' view?.

My problem isn't with which internal convention they are using, but that the view names are inconsistent. Either the left-right view names are backwards (if +Z is the front) or the front-back view names are backwards (if +Z is the back). It's the inconsistency which I find confusing.

grantm

South Africa
1507 posts

Quote from Jeff Rutan :
I just got and email from Brad on this issue and of course there is a big reason why they did this in modo - for compatibility with Maya, Mental Ray, Soft Image, Houdini, etc.

6/3/2007 - 1:55 AM

We need to move this whole +/- Z, left/right, front/back discussion to the appropriate support thread and stop hijacking Gardner's Trimotor thread! ;-)

http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=9227

Sorry about this! Back to you Gardner! ;-)

-Jeff

san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com

Message edited by Jeff Rutan on 6/3/2007 - 8:42 AM

It flies, it flies! Okay it glides, it glides.

Here's the latest. I've been watching my new Dan Ablan video course and in the very first model exercise of building a tea cup and saucer I found my new best friend--the edge weight. Oh edge weight, how could I even exist before you? What marvelous edges you create. All hail the edge weight.

-Gardner

6/5/2007 - 11:00 AM

ztmodo

Saint Cloud
210 posts

Fine update!

Edge weights can be a real pain in the rear if you are doing a lot of tweaking and reengineering like I do developing new product designs, so I never use edge weights, but if it works for you great! It is especially good for fixed objects after you get the basic geometry right. It certainly makes life much easier for this and lower poly count too!

-Jeff

san diego modo user group: www.sdmodo.org
product design+development: www.jeffrutan.com
LEGO fun: www.aerospacebricker.com
business fun: www.timeitnow.com

6/5/2007 - 11:39 AM